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Julie

Julie and her family were harmed by gambling. Now she is using her experiences to help others.

Julie’s husband was a refugee from conflict and experienced many traumatic events. On their dates he would like to play on jackpot machines. He tended to be coercive and controlling. These things were new to her, and she did not understand what was happening.

Once they were married, had children and she stopped working, she was in a more vulnerable position. She knew he was gambling more, but she did not know the extent and was too scared to confront him. Then his financial situation hit crisis point and it all came out. She helped him to manage the debt with 0% credit cards. His mental health continued to deteriorate, and he would threaten her. One night he assaulted her, demanding her bank card and was arrested.

She had him back as the children were young and they took out loans to pay off gambling debts. But after a few years she started to see the signs again. Lockdown came and he was increasingly volatile, shouting, and violent towards her. He was arrested and not allowed to contact her, but he did keep trying to get her to come back. In the end, he ended his life in a very violent and public way.

He never had help for his gambling. When she tried to get him help for gambling, he would tell her it was her fault. His family were Muslim, and they knew he gambled but she didn’t get support from them. She told the police about his gambling, but he was put on an anger management course. The domestic violence services didn’t understand gambling. She saw an advert about how domestic violence increases during the world cup. She says people need to see gambling on football is part of that too.

She has been left struggling for money and working several jobs. She has two close friends but found many people she thought of as friends have not been there. She has focused on looking after her children, who have experienced a decade of gambling harm themselves. Now she knows she needs to focus on herself.

She says it is mental health hell that affects every part of you. You try so hard to love them and help because you know they are better people than the gambling and mentally unwell person they are showing you. She says people in recovery have milestones and affirmations and there should be the same for affected others. Affected others have gone through all that with them, but just because they are all right doesn’t mean you are.

 

Contributions

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As the children got older, and obviously we had a daughter first, she was the eldest, I was forever– They were both very, very good children. Never had a moment’s trouble with either of them, but I had to lie through my back teeth constantly, especially for my daughter, for her to be able to go somewhere or do something or be with people or– because he didn’t want it or he didn’t think it was right or it wasn’t– If he was planning it and he was doing it and we were with 500 people, but it was all on his terms, it would’ve been fine, but if any one of us wanted to do something independently, it was always brought into question. This obviously came along with his gambling, came along with his mental health, so there was a build-up of years after we had the children– Obviously, I stayed at home because they were so young, because I’ve always worked to earn my own living, but we knew there were going to be a few years that it was cheaper for me to stay at home than it was me trying to get childcare. He really, I think stepped up his gambling issues at that point when he knew I was very vulnerable and could do nothing about it. There were a good two or three years leading up to when my children were eight and 12 that we went through various different really traumatic financial issues and I still wasn’t fully aware of what was going on. I might have had my thoughts about it and I might have had things here and there, but I was too scared and I didn’t really confront any problems.

Julie
Gambling Experiences
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Nothing happened for the kids. I kept ringing other charities asking. I got some help through GamCare, a really good lady that talked to me for quite a few weeks. My daughter got thankfully offered something through work where she got a number of weeks free and then some discounted counselling with the same person, which has helped her.

My son was the one who kept saying he didn’t need it the most. Which obviously then kept me thinking, well maybe you do but he was the one that was the hardest to get help for and like I said, we did get like social services or the school because he was a school at that time just doing his– had he just done? No, he’d have been just going into his GCSE year, I think. Anyway, he got a little bit of stuff come through from school. But again, there wasn’t hardly anything, hardly anything and it was just weird. He was such a different– it was amazing.

It was a different experience, but I got less– I wasn’t looking for offers of help because I’m in a different position now. So obviously I knew a lot, I was a lot wiser to what I needed to do or people I needed to speak to or where I needed to go for help but it’s still not really easy because there was still a couple of charities that I know people from really well that I’d rung and asked specific questions and they said, “Do you know what? I actually don’t know if we have someone that can answer that question,” so I don’t know. It’s just that– but you could probably say that for everything. You could probably say for all, all addictions, all charities, all people affected, there’s never– if things were perfect, these things wouldn’t happen, and we are really trying hard to make better situations out there for everyone who goes through the same thing, and maybe, hopefully, in time we will be able to. I know there’s definite holes in our trying still that we need to fill. Because, as I say, he didn’t get any help at all.

Julie
Stigma Recovery Change
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That was, he passed away on November the 10th, 11th. We asked for an interim death certificate, my daughter did on our behalf as next-of-kin along with his brother being next-of-kin, to be able to get the interim death certificate so that they could repatriate him for burial. Obviously we did all the hard work to ensure that that got done. I had to go and identify [person] because his brother couldn’t do it, which is just another one of those things that you just think, “Can’t you for once just step up and do something, please?” and I did that too. Then they just took him home and that was the last we ever heard of him or them. I’ve had to work through so many bits of paperwork and obviously none of the insurance has counted because he took his own life. The only thing we have had left was his pension, which I knew wasn’t going to be masses because I got him to start that when he was about 30 and he only ever paid in the normal five whatever percent plus whatever the others put– It’s a Scottish Widows one. We couldn’t get that pension until we got a full death certificate because of COVID we then had to wait nearly a year to have the coroner’s inquest, which was again just horrific in itself because I had to bring it all up again to talk through it all like in detail. I had his family on Zoom there, asking questions about, “Are you sure he set himself alight? Are you sure someone else didn’t have a knife? Are you sure someone else didn’t set him alight?” which was just so hard to go through.

Julie
Harm
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He bought a– well, financed in September of, I think 2021 or 2020, he went and financed a brand new £55,000 Mercedes on the fact that he told me he’d won £19,000 and that’s what he was going to use as the deposit so that brings down the amount of repayment to get it paid off in something like– I can’t remember, say it was five years at £1000 a month that he could do with his work and the other–well, anyway. I just didn’t accept the conversation. I told him, “Is the car in your name or–?” He said, no, it’s all in my name, which I was pleased with because I didn’t want it associated to the house. I couldn’t believe he’d taken on such a big financial burden at a time where business had started to slow because we were just coming into COVID, like our first winter COVID.

Anyway, he got the car and I think he used it for a month and then we got locked down. So he had a £51,000– oh, apart from the fact he didn’t use the £19,000 for the deposit for it, he gambled that and once he’d gambled that, he removed £9,000 out of our joint account that was all saved up for rainy day things and obviously our direct debits, and used that to put the deposit down on the car and left £1000 in the bank, which wasn’t even enough to cover the direct debits of that month. So I was just frantically, crazily, wholly thrown back into a spiral of– I can’t even describe it.

It’s like whole mental health hell because your whole– It affects every single fibre for every single emotion that they can touch in you. Because you try so hard to love them and so hard to help them and want them better so much because you know they are better people than the gambling mental health-issued person that they’ve shown you.

Julie
Harm
Show text version

But when it all happened they all disappeared on me. I lost so many friends. Well, you say, friends. I lost so many people who I thought were friends and I’m not talking about acquaintances, I’m talking about 10, 12, 15-year friendships, odd holidays, kids’ parties, the lot. I’ve now got two ladies here living with me now genuinely that are still my friends and still have bothered to, we’ve all looked out for each other because obviously, not just looking out for me. Nobody else has bothered to contact or anything and it just makes you laugh because we were always the biggest givers.

If he was there, he used to love showing off. It was never needed, we never wanted him to but he just liked to. It becomes a very lonely time. It’s amazing, once you become single without a husband, I think women start to get funny. I don’t know why because God’s sake, like I need any more trouble? But I think generally, I feel like they do. They get all protective at that age, like 50-year-olds. They get all oooh and then obviously when he did what he did at like nearly a year later, when everyone keeps saying, “Oh, they don’t mean it,” they just didn’t know what to say. I don’t say that as an excuse, unfortunately. I don’t think that’s an excuse. Don’t say anything. Just send me two kisses.

I didn’t ask for anything from anybody but if I sent an undercover journalist out to speak to every single one of these people and they asked a specific question, I bet you they would always have said, “Oh, Julie would’ve done that. Julie would’ve organised that, Julie would’ve gone and got that,” because Julie always did the mother hen kind of thing that I’ve got. It went out, it outstretched further than my family to some friends as well but I don’t think about it, that’s the way I am. I’ve always been that way and I will never be any different but it’s been quite shocking. A real lesson into just the inside of people. I’ve even had a couple of women drop me a message to say that they’ve not been in contact because obviously after my trauma, I just want to leave the past behind. Does that mean I have to have my brains out? I can’t talk to anybody I spoke to him the day before he did that and they were friends again of 10 years. It brought out the weirdest– I honestly just felt like I should have been giving them all therapy. It was really difficult because all I wanted was people to say, are you all right?

Julie
Harm
Show text version

First time around I feel I had absolute real, quick, positive. The night he was arrested, the kids, my mum and dad drove over middle of the night, took them home with them. I went and stayed at my friend’s around the corner because I wanted to be local because the police had to be. I had police protection people, I had domestic violence people, I had social housing, I had everybody give me a call. I ended up getting help with Safer Places and they got me back in the home.

The police, sadly– I won’t say stupidly because they have been good to me, bailed my husband back to this address on that occasion so I couldn’t come home with the kids because that’s where he was. It took a real couple of weeks with a free women’s help solicitor to get him out of the house so we could get back in again so the kids could go back to school. That was the main concern because my parents live 25 miles away so we couldn’t get the kids to school. So that was that. And then I did get offered counselling. I had counselling through my GP’s surgery. I also spent some time talking to GamCare counsellors I found online and that was all quite good to a point that I would say three weeks in and it all went dead. There was nothing.

But I kept going to my GP’s counselling session because they first said I could have six, but when obviously it all came out, they kindly gave me 12. So for 12 weeks I saw them once a week but all the other stuff that was offered or not offered, but the people that were around just disappeared so quickly.

Julie
Recovery

He used to spend quite a lot of hours in Leicester Square when we went out in the shops they used to have there at the time with all the machines in that you just popped the money into the Jackpot machines and even on our evenings out, that could have taken up an hour, an hour and a half of our time with me just standing there, but because it was a completely different environment to anything I’d ever witnessed or seen before, I didn’t see it as being anything wrong… Looking back now, there were flags. But ones that if you weren’t aware, you wouldn’t have noticed.

Gambling Experiences

He was arrested on common assault, I think it was. They knew about his gambling because I’d talked a lot about his gambling in the police interviews because I kept saying that I wanted him to get help but all the time I tried to get him help, he threw it back in my face. Because he just said it was my fault. I was the reason. He wouldn’t take any help from me.

Gambling Experiences

He used [our daughter] like he used me. Because he couldn’t get to me, he was bouncing all his mind business off of her, trying to get her to pass it on, so he’ll be telling her, “I love her, I really love her, I can’t live without way, she’s got to let me back home, I promise I won’t do anything,” to, “If you don’t tell your mum to let me back in that house, I’ll make sure she gets something– she will never go back in that house again,” you know, threats and things.

Gambling Experiences

He’d become exceptionally paranoid, it just built up into a frenzy where he knew I was threatened, and he knew I didn’t want to be there. But then every time he left to go out, he sort of threatened me, that you’d better be there when I come back because if you’re not– And I was too scared and I didn’t know where to go and I had nowhere else to go and I didn’t want to go and tell people about this thing that was happening, because as far as everyone was concerned, we were having a nice marriage… He’d left after dragging me out of bed to get me to give him my bank card, which was the only card that was left in the house.

Harm

He had his own self-employed company, he borrowed, took out a £10,000 Lloyds loan for something to do with the car and he just took it and gambled it.

Gambling Companies

[Son] had to wait quite a long time for his counselling. … I think he’s gone about five or six weeks now, again a year after the event, but he finishes next week because it’s the youth programme and he’s 18 next Friday. So they won’t give him any further than next Tuesday…They’re not sure at the moment or haven’t been told if they’re going to refer him over to an adult version of a trauma counselling session.

Stigma

All of a sudden, I just saw the triggers, just saw them again… Thought it was me because with the first time, he told me that everything was my fault, and he only did everything because I was such a poor mother and I was such a poor wife and I was the reason this is all happening.

Stigma Recovery

He was always a little bit coercive and quite controlling but again, I don’t mind pleading all innocence because I think it’s why a lot of people, men and women don’t speak up, because they feel they’ve been so stupid. But it’s not being stupid, it’s not knowing, it’s not being educated, it’s not being around that world.

If you don’t see those things and know exactly what they’re for, or you know those feelings and those behaviours and you know why they’re happening, you can’t blame yourself for being stupid. That’s one thing I spent a long time doing. I have to say now because I wasn’t stupid, I was unaware, but his coercive and quite controlling personality then put constraints on our relationship.

Stigma

Since the gambling issue came up, his family wouldn’t help us, because obviously, they are Muslim. They know that he gambled. He’d taken money off of them too. So they knew he gambled, but when I asked his brother and sister for help on two different occasions, because I knew how bad things were and because how I needed help with him, I was just told either I was too needy and too lazy and need to get up and get a job myself, or please remember how much he loves you, he’s only just letting off steam.

Stigma

Sometimes really frightening, sometimes just really sad conversations. He did talk about suicide on a number of occasions.

Harm

And now, when I said before, he would never do it, he’s not brave enough, no, he’ll never do it, he’s not brave enough, but he’s done it knowing he’s taken us– knowing my son had to see and hear and knowing that I had to go and tell his daughter he’s done his job, he did what he said he’d do and he may not physically have taken us with him, but mentally, there will never ever be a time– and I hope there will for the kids because they’re doing so well.

Harm

After he committed suicide, about seven months later I got solicitor’s letter from one of his personal friends who he’d borrowed £20,000 from, no signed paperwork, no formal agreement, no nothing but he wants it off me, this man. He wants his £20,000 back from me for his gambling debt…So the stress for one letter because then I just kept thinking, my God, who else–? They’re all going to come now. They’re all going to come for the house. Because all I do was doing was working four jobs to try and keep the mortgage going, to keep the house for the kids. Then to have complete strangers wanting £20,000 pounds because of him? He’s been dead nearly a year.

Harm

But it got to a point that, I think he had got himself in such a mess, he needed me to get him out of the mess he’d got into. It all come out in the open with the big arguments and the tears and the everything that it causes, and I helped him get five credit cards and put various different totals of debt onto each credit card… That was exhausting in itself.

Harm

Without him knowing, we got the ticket home… He had this lovely evening for his 40th birthday. When he opened the ticket, oh my God, it was the probably the most emotional evening ever… On my 40th birthday, because he’d done a massive amount of gambling and we were in a really bad place and it was horrible so I had no money and had a really, really bad 40th birthday.

Harm

We’d had a lockdown of listening to him shouting at me for various issues– he’d been gambling all the way through the lockdown. There were another few family arguments over money and what was going to happen.

Harm

When he was of his good mind and he didn’t gamble and everything was fine, he absolutely loved and adored his kids like crazily, probably too much actually. But the more his mental health and the gambling took his mental health, the more you knew he wasn’t the same person because his kids… There was no point in me saying, “Well, what about the kids?” or “What about this?” because nothing– He got to a point where nothing mattered anymore.

Harm

They know that he gambled. But when I asked his brother and sister for help on two different occasions, because I knew how bad things were and because how I needed help with him, I was just told either I was too needy and too lazy and need to get up and get a job myself, or please remember how much he loves you, he’s only just letting off steam.

To the outside world, probably at least three-quarters of our friends, maybe more, he was such an easy-going and quite a strong opinionated person but he was also quite kind. He always paid for stuff, they never, not hardly any of them really knew what he was properly like. And obviously, when they did, I don’t know what happened, maybe they took too much money off him, too many drinks off him, too many parties off him, I don’t know but when it all happened, they all disappeared on me.

Harm

I have to move from this house. Even had to warn my silly parents who would hate it if I lived any further away from now. But I’ve said, “I can’t stay here much longer because it’s just everyday, I’ll walk out of the front door, I pull in everyday, same thing. It doesn’t change.” I don’t think anything else above pulling round that corner and seeing the same thing I saw.

Harm

I lost so many friends… I’ve even had a couple of women drop me a message to say that they’ve not been in contact because obviously after my trauma, I just want to leave the past behind. Does that mean I have to have my brains out? I can’t talk to anybody I spoke to the day before he did that, and they were friends again of 10 years. It brought out the weirdest– I honestly just felt like I should have been giving them all therapy. It was really difficult because all I wanted was people to say, are you all right? But they all seem to be struggling with it.

Stigma Harm

I applied to a care home, a dementia care home a mile away from here for a job… I started doing 12-hour shifts. We had dementia patients that hadn’t seen their families for weeks because of COVID, maybe not be able to remember their families next time they see them, some of them passing away and you are the only person there to hold their hand because their family can’t see them. So I went from a very emotional, difficult home life to a job that probably was the worst possible job I could have chosen in my current mental state, but it earned me money and I could do it, so I just did it.

Harm

My 51st birthday wasn’t with him, but it was ruined by him because somehow he got into a joint bank account that was not supposed to be a joint bank account anymore. I took Nationwide to an ombudsman and that took me 10 months of hell and pain, but I got myself £700 back there in my bank account. They gave me £200 pound for him getting it out in the first place.

Harm

He went to prison for that time, came out and then COVID meant the court case would’ve taken until the end of August, and both myself and my son sat down and said, we can’t do that. We cannot live like this, waiting from January to August for this in court, we need to start working out how our lives are going to move forward. Anyway, we made an arrangement in court that he wasn’t going to be tried, but he had a band on his ankle, he couldn’t come into [county], he couldn’t contact us.

Harm

[My neighbour] called the police and that was the first time that he was arrested on what– common assault, I think it was. I can’t remember then. They knew about his gambling because I’d talked a lot about his gambling in the police interviews because I kept saying that I wanted him to get help but all the time I tried to get him help, he threw it back in my face.

Harm

The police, sadly– I won’t say stupidly because they have been good to me, bailed my husband back to this address on that occasion so I couldn’t come home with the kids because that’s where he was. It took a real couple of weeks with a free women’s help solicitor to get him out of the house so we could get back in again so the kids could go back to school. That was the main concern because my parents live 25 miles away so we couldn’t get the kids to school.

Harm

[Son] he had to wait quite a long time for his counselling. We never really have had any issues. We were quite good at chatting, quite open, but there was, I knew he had stuff. I knew that stuff wasn’t my right to poke at. So he has been having, I think he’s gone [to counselling] about five or six weeks now… He seems to have, although he’s come back quite upset and quite angry on a couple of occasions, he seems to have worked through some stuff that I feel it has been of benefit to him.

Recovery

I’d given him loads of leaflets for GamCare, everybody, so many over the years. Got so much stuff in place and he wouldn’t admit he had a problem with gambling, and he would never, ever admit he had a mental health problem. I used to make him so angry and he just used to say it was me, I was mental. That’s all he used to say. To think he could have got help.

Recovery

I am now working for two different gambling awareness charities. From a lot of things that I have experienced and learned over the last probably five, six years, I’m now hopefully using as a positive and giving back from where I have been able to help my family.

Recovery

I do quite a bit on Twitter and stuff because I think if I can just help one person, and I know it’s all cliché… I like doing those little posts because I do get some people who genuinely, genuinely say, “Thank you so much because just seeing your smile and reading that sentence of positivity makes my morning,” and the fact they say that they don’t have to say that it’s those kind of things are really important to me now.

Recovery

I’m coming to a new point now that I finally, I was doing four jobs and it was taking up probably 90% of my time. Then otherwise, I was just sleeping or fitting things in. Things have changed now. I’ve got a nice full-time job, which again I’m really enjoying, but I’ve got more thinking time for me now.

Recovery

You’ve got to look for professional help. There are plenty of people out there, don’t be ashamed to say, “I can’t do this anymore,” or, “I can’t be with this person anymore,” or, “This person needs help,” because there are so many and with more lived experienced people out there to help you. You’re really missing out on something that could make your life a lot happier.

Recovery

Someone did warn me don’t be surprised if you really feel quite a low after the initial wave of relief has gone over certain things because you’ve held yourself so tight for so long, it’s like I might have had COVID ten times, but I only let it get me three. But when it does get me, it gets me bad. I don’t know. I don’t know. It’s just there’s always been a case of, “Well, who else is going to do it if I don’t?” So I did have days, I did take days I did not get out of bed and I just hid from everything and then the following day, I could get up again and carry on.

Recovery

Although my heart equally goes out to any person in any addiction that is in recovery, because recovery is a long day-to-day journey, I still don’t believe that there is half enough out there that needs to be to look after the people who are affected by those people with addiction… I have a lot of friends in recovery that I’m extremely proud of. But I just sometimes feel that we go through all of that with them and then just, “You’re all right now. Because they’re all right now, you should be all right now”.

Change

I saw a domestic abuse advert that was out during the football… It was very short, very football-fied but not slogans on it about the woman at home getting the abuse, more domestic abuse during England football competitions because of the betting and the excitement and everything. Even tonight when I saw it, it was quite scary for me to look at, because I was like, “Wow, this actually really is what it is.” Nobody really looks at the fact that sport, plus gambling, plus sometimes alcohol and drugs equals a lot of pain. It’s so easy to see, yet people are choosing not to see it. That’s why we need to keep talking about it.

Change

I am not ashamed of my story anymore. I don’t feel stupid about my story. I now understand it. When I call it a story, it’s not a story, it’s real life…. My life needs to be told. My children’s life needs to be told, my husband’s life need to be told, otherwise, people just sweep it under the carpet and believe it doesn’t happen. It does happen, and it’s happening more and more.

Change

If there’s something I could say or something I could give somebody to maybe just think a little bit differently about various things. Maybe it’s an addiction, maybe it’s general advertising, maybe it’s their own mental health, just all different things. If we don’t keep talking, it’s not going to be a good place. We need to keep being open and we need to kill the stigma off it all really, really quickly.

Change

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