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Nadine

Nadine works in community and charity development. To start with she bought lottery tickets, and then moved to a National Lottery online account. The minimum deposit was £10, so she spent the extra on instant games. A while later, she had time on her hands and was living alone, so she started playing online slots. Gambling increasingly became part of her life. It was what she would do at the end of a hard day’s work, or when she had time to herself. 

Then she had several tough things going on at work, she was having relationship troubles, and her mum died suddenly. This came on top of a stressful childhood, and many traumatic experiences in her life. She felt like she was losing her identity and withering away. She ended up gambling on credit cards, and then got high-cost loans. She had no money left to live on, She couldn’t  plan or do things and became increasingly isolated. 

One day she felt like gambling was surrounding and consuming her and that the only way she could make it stop was to end her life. That scared her and she sought help. She made changes to her life. But it wasn’t until she was able to tell her best friend what had happened that she felt like she was back to being herself. 

Nadine works on helping others with gambling difficulties. She says there is not enough support specifically for women. Women have been relied on and have spent their lives looking after others. If they develop gambling difficulties, they can’t tell anyone because they have broken the rules that a woman should be sensible, caring, and responsible. She says no one starts gambling thinking they are going to become a gambling addict, and anyone can become vulnerable due to life events we all face. 

Contributions

There was one night I won £7,000 off a bonus and then it was “I don’t have to work or so many months now. I don’t have to do this job that has become so painful to me.” Then you would wake up in the morning, and there would be nothing left, and you would hate yourself. You would lift your head up off the pillow, remember what had happened, and put your head back down and then get up and you would get on with life, and then it would start again. Then there was one day when I was sitting in my kitchen, and it felt like gambling surrounded me. It was all four walls of that room, and I did not know what to do. The thought process was, “I don’t know how to make this stop. I don’t know how to make this go away. I’m the problem, so I must be removed.” I remember then going, “I’m equating that to I’m going to have to kill myself.” That really woke me up, and I reached out for some support.

Recovery

I get frustrated, but I know that the majority of people that come for support are males, but they will like, say 75% of the people that come forward are males and then nothing is said about the 25% that are women. You’re just making women feel like they have no place and I just always feel like we’re pushed off the table. There’s targeted marketing of gambling products to women, so why is there not targeted marketing for women?… It’s all of these things where they’re not expecting to see women in that crowd, so they have no voice in this. It’s majority male. It’s still focused on that. The GambleAware campaign, they’ve done one this year where it was for women but when you click on the link it says it’s a gender-neutral information and nothing has changed. Little offshoots are still coming through now for women. We’ll wait and see.

Change
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I think that there’re some amazing people out there that really care and offer some good services. Personally, I feel that some of the services are like 75% of what people need, so it’s just not enough. I can’t remember how many counselling sessions I had, but I never got any call backs, I never got– that was it. That was my service and that was it. You’re just off, aren’t you? I recognize that some people will go into recovery and go, “I don’t want anything to do with gambling ever again. I never want to discuss it.” That’s why some organisations really struggle with callbacks because that is what they’re meant to do nowadays. I think there’s not enough with all of the things that – you don’t just stop gambling and recover within a year. Even after that time, things start sinking in, going, “Oh, and there was that. Oh, I need to mend this. I still got really major financial problems. My house is going to get taken off me.” There’s no real support for that. There’s no linked up, the kind of hand holding or advisories because it just seems this, it does look like it’s linear where it’s like, “Oh, yes. You’re going to recovery. You finished the course. You’re off. We’ll ring you.” I’ve spoken to people where things start sinking in, and it takes a while after your mind has been all over the place, and that you’re getting a grip, and then you’re looking round and seeing that life is different, hopefully. But there’s still those hangovers from the behaviour or the legacies. There’s still not enough there for that. It’s those kind of things of– I know people want different things, and there really needs to be that recognition of one service can’t do it all. Because I can see organisations trying to get money in to do prevention, treatment, aftercare, anything that’s available. It’s like, “Are you really the best people to do that?” I supposed that’s up to the funders, isn’t it? It’s just giving people choice. I think that’s really important. Recognising that it isn’t linear, and it doesn’t mean in month six that they’re going to want this. They might– we could have a map of things that are available to people and go, “If this is what you’re looking for, what about this?” and give it. Letting people feel empowered.

Nadine
Change
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Oh, that’s ITV. If you think about advertising has probably gone like that, hasn’t it? With people being able to afford advertising, one of the only people that can afford advertising is gambling companies. When you look at ITV, I’ve got a real bugbear with them at the moment, but all the programmes that are sponsored, like Loose Women is sponsored by a specific game. I just find that really strange. Then there was a lot with Ant & Dec with some of their programmes. Emmerdale is Postcode Lottery, Ant & Dec was sponsored by the National Lottery. I just find that really strange. When I questioned Postcode Lottery of why are you sponsoring a family show? They’ve got corporate responses for everything. I’ve challenged National Lottery on training their staff in retail because I used to support somebody who would just go in and buy packets and packets of scratch cards, and they have a corporate response for everything. I have asked them, “Do you have anybody with lived experience on your boards?” because they should have really. It’s just interesting, isn’t it? It’s they’re everywhere, all of the radio shows and all of the little competitions you can do with Andy Peters on what is it? With Tully and things– you can tell I don’t watch a lot of telly, but it’s just ingrained in that consciousness of just going, “This is completely normal.” And it isn’t? It’s built on hope, isn’t it? “Oh, I could win this. Oh, I could do that.”

Nadine
Gambling Companies
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What will gambling turn into? I can’t keep up with it. I think it’s all presented on thing to governments of, “Look at the taxes you could make, look at the employment that we create.” It’s how much money are they taking out of communities? It’s billions in local communities. And what does it actually give? It’s a real drainer, isn’t it? It doesn’t actually– you don’t really hear that many stories of “Well done.” Of, “Look at this, person’s won all this.” You don’t hear that very often, and when you hear there’s a winner every 20 seconds? I said to people that could be 5p if that’s what they’re classing it as. The fact that they use their data, not for any good, just to exploit. And that sounds quite cynical, but that’s what it feels like when I hear stories from people. And that there’s no regulation. The regulators are toothless, really. I think they’re in the pocket of the industry. Where is the hope of that? It just makes people feel very small and discarded. They pick you up and they spit you out and you get replaced by somebody else. It’s a really empty industry, isn’t it? Who is it actually benefiting?

Nadine
Gambling Companies
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What I describe it as you feel grubby about yourself because you’re lying to people, you’re doing something that doesn’t make you feel very good, so you’re getting up in the morning and, “I don’t like me. What have I become?” People think you’re one thing but on the inside it’s like you’re rotting away and you don’t like yourself. It’s like there’s an element of anger or self-hate. Lots of people say to me, “Yes, yes, I completely get that self-harm because it’s like I’ll win but I’m going to lose it all.” The amounts of money that you use out there. I think it’s the lies you tell, the behaviours that it creates.
I try to talk to people that you’re still this person that’s good and got these good elements and qualities about them but it’s your behaviours that are not reflecting who you are but it’s amazing where it will take you. I don’t know. It just creates so much damage and destruction, not for everybody but for the people that– Most people would look at me and go, “you of all people but no, not you,”” and half an hour later they were, “I still can’t believe that you did that.”

Nadine
Stigma

Things happen. Life happens, doesn’t it? People get ill, people die, people have jobs, people lose jobs. You can’t predict what’s going to happen, so you could be a social gambler. You could just be out with your friends and you can enjoy that. Something can happen and it becomes your go to, to cope with that, and it’s about people having healthy coping mechanisms and feeling resilient.

Stigma
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There’s people in trusted positions that get into gambling addiction. It’s that kind of thing of what people look like to others this but actually what’s going on for them or that reliance or that social construct that a woman should be this, this and this and be sensible, be caring, be responsible, which pushes down that feeling of, “I can ask for help because I should have been all of these things and I’ve broken the rules.”

I have known women that I’ve spoken to where they’ve talked about their gambling addiction and a male relative or somebody else is going, “You’re a mother. You shouldn’t behave like that.” Which just pushes everybody down all of the time of– People have choices. We go into gambling not going today I’m going to be a gambling addict. It’s today I’m just going to put the lottery on or today I’m going to play these games for an hour whilst everybody

Nadine
Stigma

Generally, people are in crisis when they actually want some support. That’s another thing of people don’t recognize where they’re up to. They’re probably comparing themselves to the newspaper articles, aren’t they? Of person loses £230,000 and they’re going, “Well, I don’t do that.” I’m not a professional footballer and people are not identifying with that.

Stigma
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I support women who are, basically, on their knees because of their loved one’s addiction. They’ve never put a bet on in their life. They are absolutely on the floor. That needs addressing. There’s young people and there’s children that are impacted by it as well and it just feels like we’ve got this whole new generation of young people that are going to have some serious issues in a few years time because it’s so normalized. For males it is so normalized, isn’t it? It is just so they expect everybody does it and it ends up like why have I got the problem with it and becomes that individual thing of there must be something wrong with me because I can’t cope with this. When you look at the amount of adverts and incentives and the emails that can come through, in the end you just think if you left somebody in a room long enough with that, they’re going to go, “Okay, I’ll gamble.” What are adverts there to do – to persuade you to do something? I wait for a train and you can see everybody on their phones and I want to run up behind them and go, “What are you doing?” We’re talking about a number of people but the impacts are huge and life-changing or life-taking sometimes.

Nadine
Stigma
Show text version

Going into that period, I started getting bullied at work. I realized I was in a relationship that I didn’t really want to be in, but it was so nice that I had no reason not to be in this relationship. The person I was with would have convinced me to stay anyway. Then my mum died suddenly, and it really impacted on my sister’s mental health. I was trying to deal with clearing the house out and the bereavement and trying to help my sister and things all just got to a head and I drank a lot of wine and gambled a lot of money. These were the days of you could use credit cards for gambling. I ended up over time with five credit cards, which then turned into two high-cost loans because my credit rating was slowly going down.

Getting loans to consolidate that debt to try and just make a clean break of things, and it didn’t. It just created a black hole of more credit that needed to be filled, and very quickly I would get one credit card with a credit limit, and instantly, by using it, it would go over that credit limit, and then have to sort that out. I always paid my rent, always paid my bills, but always had no money left to live or to make plans for things and became very isolated as well. I was struggling with the bereavement of my mum, my sister’s mental health, things that were going on for me being in a job being bullied, so losing my identity and feeling like I was withering away.

Nadine
Gambling Experiences

It was a bit of innocent curiosity that I would definitely put down to– At the time, I didn’t have a TV so I could definitely not blame gambling adverts and they were not at the saturation point as they are now but there was definitely stuff on the internet and it probably was something that’s popped up or an email that’s come through and I’ve clicked on it and gone, “Well, why not? I’ll get some free spins or an incentive.”

Gambling Experiences
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Don’t do it on your own. I near enough did it on my own. I’ve seen the value of groups, of treatment groups, of recovery groups, and it’s not for everybody. There are lots of people out there with lived experience that are always happy to listen. In not even a formal capacity. Social media’s good, it can be a bit hectic on there sometimes, but it’s that thing of reach out and you can do it anonymously. We recognize that people are not ready to put their name to something and that’s okay. Just you have choice. There is quite a few things out there now, and just try, just try all you can do, and get hold of your recovery, and give it all you’ve got.

I think some people come into recovery and go, what are you going to do for me? You’re going to make me better. That isn’t the right way of looking at things. It’s what can I get out of you? How can I make myself better? Not to make it all feel like it’s all on your shoulders. There’s lots of people out there who offer support, but it is that thing of wanting things to be different.

Nadine
Recovery

There’s also other things like the financial industry. In my day it was credit cards and companies could see what you were spending your money on but wouldn’t intervene. Banks, it’s worked in their favour as well for a long time. There’re different actors in this that could be helping. I know that some people find it invasive, but the damage that can be caused in a very short space of time with people that aren’t technically in their right mind, and I know that’s hard to prove. It’s really, really difficult.

Change

I saw my best friend and told her everything… I felt like a human being, that I sat there that evening with my friends feeling like I belonged. Because I’d spent so long feeling like I didn’t belong, that I didn’t deserve nice things… But that lying to people is as toxic as the gambling because it keeps you in this place that you don’t feel very good about yourself, that nobody’s going to understand you, so what have you got left at the end of the day? You’ve got gambling and it works on silence.

Harm

I ended up over time with five credit cards, which then turned into two high-cost loans because my credit rating was slowly going down. Getting loans to consolidate that debt to try and just make a clean break of things, and it didn’t work. It just created a black hole of more credit that needed to be filled, and very quickly I would get one credit card with a credit limit, and instantly, by using it, it would go over that credit limit, and then I’d have to sort that out.

Harm

How does it get to that kind of stress levels and what it must do to people mentally and physically? I’m coming to the acceptance of my life will probably be cut short by the amount of stress I’ve put myself through and the kind of physical impacts that I had after gambling, where I became really quite physically ill and had to have a major operation. Was that something that was hidden by gambling, created by gambling, exacerbated by it? Would it have healed itself?

Harm
Show text version

“There was one night I won £7,000 off a bonus and then it was “”I don’t have to work or so many months now. I don’t have to do this job that has become so painful to me.”” Then you would wake up in the morning, and there would be nothing left, and you would hate yourself. You would lift your head up off the pillow, remember what had happened, and put your head back down and then get up and you would get on with life, and then it would start again. Then there was one day when I was sitting in my kitchen and it felt like gambling surrounded me. It was all four walls of that room, and I did not know what to do. The thought process was, “”I don’t know how to make this stop. I don’t know how to make this go away. I’m the problem, so I must be removed.””
I remember then going, “”I’m equating that to I’m going to have to kill myself.”” That really woke me up, and I reached out for some support”

Nadine

I reached out for some support with the National Gambling Helpline, and I attended counselling sessions that had a gambling theme to them. One of the best things that ever happened to me it was one day that I had a counselling session and it triggered me. It made me incredibly emotional, and I went home, and I gambled £500. The next day, I saw my best friend and just told her everything, because I couldn’t hold it back. It just all burst out of me. I always said to people that is what broke the hold that gambling had over me, it crumbled away, and I felt like a human being that I sat there that evening with my friends feeling like I belonged.

Recovery
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“That’s the way that I describe it when I look back on it. We’re talking a couple of years in, just struggling, making really bad choices for myself, just feeling like I was banging into walls of lots and lots of debt, and realizing that I was running out of options money-wise. Having that money gives you the opportunity to gamble. I was up until 4:00 AM gambling through the night, able to win quite big amounts of money, but never taking a withdrawal out of there. It was always just spend, and the deposits would then go up. I would always be working out – if something happened.
There was one night I won £7,000 off a bonus and then it was “”I don’t have to work or so many months now. I don’t have to do this job that has become so painful to me.”” Then you would wake up in the morning, and there would be nothing left, and you would hate yourself. You would lift your head up off the pillow, remember what had happened, and put your head back down and then get up and you would get on with life, and then it would start again. Then there was one day when I was sitting in my kitchen and it felt like gambling surrounded me. It was all four walls of that room, and I did not know what to do. The thought process was, “”I don’t know how to make this stop. I don’t know how to make this go away. I’m the problem, so I must be removed.””
I remember then going, “”I’m requesting that too. I’m going to have to kill myself.”””

Nadine
Gambling Experiences
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Prisonous. What I would say, it’s something that probably grows in that time and opportunity. It could be that you find that you’re spending more time on it, or you’re more distracted by it, but you’re thinking about it. Because I wouldn’t sit at work and gamble in front of people. Even when I worked at home, I don’t think I really let it impact on that, but I would definitely a bit earlier in the evening that I would start, and it would be later. I remember a time where it was a Wednesday and this is when it was quite bad, so say in the last year, and it was a Wednesday and I was stood in my kitchen and I was shaking going, “I’ve got to gamble.”

Now, there was nobody there with a gun against my head, but that’s what it felt like. It was like, “I have to gamble,” and it was in that thing of, “I don’t ordinarily want to do this, but I have no say in the matter,” and things like efforts to try and not gamble of getting my credit cards and putting them in an envelope, pulling my washing machine out, sticking it on a wall, and pushing the washing machine back just to slow me down. It always feels like a bit of a film because if you think, as soon as that laptop was open, that washing machine was in the middle of the room, those credit cards were out. For me, I’m like, “Well, why didn’t I chop them up?” It’s always that you need those things around you to enable you to gamble.

Nadine
Gambling Experiences

I think something maybe changed then, and it became something that at the end of the day, after a hard day at work or being on my own, it was just something that became increasingly part of my life. Most of it was online slots. It wasn’t sports betting or bingo. I very rarely played bingo because that just didn’t feel like it was my thing. Just played lots and lots of different games. That went on for about two years, and probably was increasing in time, in money, but not really feeling that it was a problem. Going into that period, I started getting bullied at work. I realized I was in a relationship that I didn’t really want to be in, but it was so nice that I had no reason not to be in this relationship.

Gambling Experiences
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Then I just started gambling. I started with the National Lottery, opening up an online account with them to put my lottery tickets on, and the minimum deposit is £10. Generally, most people don’t spend £10 on playing the lottery. I started using the instant games. Very quickly on reflection looking back, I’d spent too much on that already. This was my first exposure to it, and spent far too much money and then got bored, with this realisation that I wasn’t getting anything for my money. You didn’t really get much prizes. I forgot about it and I just left it to one side and didn’t do anything.

Then it must be about 10 or 11 years ago, I must have been bored near Christmas, and boredom’s incredibly lethal. I lived on my own in this flat, so nobody there over my shoulder asking me what I was doing. I opened up an account and started playing online slots. I know within that evening, I know within a very short time I won £200. Which doesn’t sound like a lot, but it was something that made me go, “Oh, my goodness.” My first thought was to share that with my best friend who’s got a number of children. It was, “I will do that.” I think she got £50 out of it.

Nadine
Gambling Experiences

I used to support somebody who had quite a bad addiction with gambling and as they went into recovery, they got into those phone lines and was just spending all of the money on that, on the hope that they would win a car or it was them trying to balance that out of, “Well, it’s not really gambling.” That’s another thing that people don’t see the National Lottery as gambling, telephone lines is gambling, the Facebook lotteries and the raffles that are on there, they’re quite damaging and all these things that we do. I think we are just sleepwalking through it. Aren’t we?

Gambling Companies

Then I just started gambling. I started with the National Lottery, opening up an online account with them to put my lottery tickets on, and the minimum deposit is £10. Generally, most people don’t spend £10 on playing the lottery. I started using the instant games. Very quickly on reflection looking back, I’d spent too much on that already. This was my first exposure to it, and spent far too much money and then got bored, with this realisation that I wasn’t getting anything for my money. You didn’t really get much prizes. I forgot about it and I just left it to one side and didn’t do anything. Then it must be about 10 or 11 years ago, I must have been bored near Christmas, and boredom’s incredibly lethal. I lived on my own in this flat, so nobody there over my shoulder asking me what I was doing. I opened up an account and started playing online slots.

Gambling Companies

Another thing that I remember, people feeding back to me about companies doing a refer a friend, so gambling companies encouraging, well, maybe men as well, but I was hearing it from women, of women going, “I’m so sick of my friend telling me to join this, because if she put ten quid in, a friend, would get ten quid.” It sounds like little bits of money, but it’s all incentives, isn’t it?

Gambling Companies

Nobody goes into it going, “Today I’ll be a gambler.” It’s all very innocent. I have had conversations with women that have been encouraged to gamble by friends because they’d be good at something and or because they’re upset about something and there’s that social aspect of it, very innocent conversations that have absolutely turned their lives upside down and sometimes in a very short period of time as well, where it’s been lifechanging and not really in a positive way.

Gambling Companies

If you get up in the morning and its particular times of the day, there’s gambling adverts on for a particular things or Gala Bingo. Or again, going back to ITV, Gala sponsors, what they call “The Chase” and things like that, but it’s just all this normalisation. Loose Women, that’s an example, but it’s sponsored by a gambling company. They’re seeing that. Every time the adverts come on, it’s the beginning and end of a segment and it’s everywhere. Facebook is all over it. I’ve spoken to quite a few women that have got hooked into these raffles on Facebook.

Gambling Companies

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